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Steve Kline's Bird @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:45 AM
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So the Cardinals trade a young arm from their much improved farm system (Thank you Bill DeWitt and Jeff Luhnow) for one of the veteran bats Creepy Cardinal Nation was whining for, and you make no mention of it. You just bitch about businessmen who want to make a profit.
InsideSTL doesn't deserve you.
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By
st. louisville cards @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 11:37 AM
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So let me get this straight, ownership is not trying to win, even though in Pujols' 8 seasons the cardinals have been to the playoffs 5 times, NLCS 4 times, W.S. 2 times, and they won the W.S. once?
Here is how the big market teams match up during that time:
Red Sox-5 playoffs, 4 ALCS, 2 W.S. championships
Yankees-7 playoffs, 3 ALCS, 2 W.S, 0 Championships
Dodgers-3 playoffs, 1 NLCS, 0 W.S.
Angels-5 playoffs, 2 ALCS, 1 W.S. championship
Mets-1 playoff, lost to Yadier Molina
Seems to me The Red Sox are the only team in that time who have more success and a team hitting slump in 2004 could have changed that.
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By
Uncle Tupelo @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:04 PM
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It was mildly amusing at first when this hack wrote his knee jerk reaction articles. Now I get the impression he is just trying to get under people's skin. How else to explaiin the complete bullshit he spews week in week out. The All Powerfull Yankees have used all that great money and talent to win 3 more games than the Cards to this point. The Angels? Same amount of wins. I guess those teams are wasting their star's talents as well. It's no shock the offense is struggling right now. And your suggestion going forward is to get rid of Albert so he can win MVP's somewhere else because by golly he deserves it!(never mind the $12 million a year the Cards are paying him). I really hope Pete Eicholz not only fucks your sisters but also gets your mom and grandma. They pay you for this shit?
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By
athooks @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:11 PM
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The question is simple: Do you think the Cardinals, as an orginization put winning games at the top of their priority list and work their budgets and everything else around the goal of winning?
Or do you think that they put $$$ at the top of the priority list and work everything else around making a profit?
I firmly belive that it's the latter.
The Cardinals have no doubt been a sucessful team in the 00's. This is not questioned. What I do question, however, is what matters most to the Cardinals winning or profit? If given the choice between a shit load of $$$ or another World Series win, what would they choose?
Some owners give the impression that they'd literally take a bullet to win. Other's don't. Maybe Bill DeWitt wants to win worse than anything ever... but he doesn't give that impression to me.
Hope this clears up any confusion on where I'm coming from on this post.
Have a happy 4th of July ladies.
ATH
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By
Chris_Reed @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:36 PM
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So, by that rationale ATH, does that mean that if DeWitt did cartwheels up and down 7th street screaming about how much he wanted a winner and would sell off his children to do so, but then didn't authorize major moves to be made every time a player was available or needed, would he give off the impression that he was more committed to winning? Because, to me, giving an impression and executing actual business are two different things.
And there's still time to execute business...the trade deadline is a month away, the waiver deadline is two months away, and the end of the season is three months away. If last night's win was the beginning of a 10 game winning streak, will the Cardinals be deserving of Pujols in 2 weeks?
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By
Uncle Tupelo @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:38 PM
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First off, hasn't this column been written like 3 times already? It's the whole "Do the Cards want to win or make money thing."
Let me spell this out to you so you understand - THE ONLY THING THAT ANY FRANCHISE CARES ABOUT IS MAKING MONEY. PERIOD. END OF STORY. If having a higher pay roll and winning more games helps them achieve that goal, that is the route they take. If they can do by being crappy every year(LA Clippers) they go that route. What would make you think that Bill DeWitt cares more? Would you like him to scream at the umpires every game? Is spending money the only thing they can do that will make you happy? Do you really think they can compete with the NY's and Bostons of the world when it comes to payroll?
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By
L D @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 3:47 PM
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Uncle Tup- Of course no one thinks we should spend NY/Boston and money and that was never mentioned here, so don't draw ridiculous conclusions or comments- it only takes away from your cedibility, broseph! Just a little 'free' advice.
Steve Kline- 'you just bitch about business making a profit"...lame, bro, bro..just an easy lamo statement....come'on your better than that, pal! The argument is not whether someone should make a profit, duh, no shit, but Does Dewitt sacrafice winning for more profit, answer appears to be 'yes'! Even if Dewitt threw another 20 million out on the team and the cardinals started to kick ass, which they would, no doubt...he would end up making a nice profit and more winning would only enhance that, right?! Trust me ownership is NOT hurting, not even close and spending more money or acquiring better players with higher contracts only ensures more success for Ablert, for the fans, for everyone!
Chris Reed- the cartwheels comments is extremely exaggerated and makes you look more dumb than the author here! Yes, there is still time to execute, but , in the past (the last two years) we have been told to wait and not shit happens. There is only so much of that one can take...kinda like the boy who cried wolf story!
louisville cards- "ownership is not trying to win" the article never says that...he says "ownership puts making money #1 priority then winning", try not to misinterpretate words, thanks! I do like the breakdown of the top tier teams, although none of these teams have a player in pissing distance of AP.
Which brings me to my next point- we have ALBERT PUJOLS, we the stl cardinals, have Albert effing pujols, I repeat we (Ownership, Coaches, Players, Fans, St.louis) have Albert 'the machine' Pujols on our team. WHY NOT WIN 5 FUCKING WORLD SERIES, WHY THE HELL NOT???!!!! are you satisfied with one, which we got lucky as hell, may I remind you?!
If you are satisfied with one WS and a bunch of playoffs appearances, then I hope we never meet. We have the best player in baseball, maybe of all time, does anyone understand what the hell we are all witnessing? Really? Do you?
This is a once in a lifetime thing. Please, open your eyes, people.
And ownership is taking it for granted, in my opinion. I'm not saying spend over 200 million in payroll, but you're telling me that Ownership couldnt spend another 15-20 million, which would put us around 110-120 (sorry I dont know exactly and don't wanna look it up), and add another bat or pitcher or both and then win the central by 15 games, instead of maybe winning or losing it by one?! Or sweep the Sox or Yanks in the WS instead of us getting swept?!
Think about this...Albert is doing this all by himself this year...if he was not on the team we would be worse than the Washington Nationals, but he is on the team, and we are doing above average, but why not acquire some more help (trust it will not break the bank, folks), and take this division, league, and WS by the balls and celebrate like it's 2006?!
Everyone, have a good and safe holiday weekend!
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By
Z-Bomb @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:09 PM
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The Mariners spent $100M last year and lost 100 games. The Yankees spent $200M and missed the playoffs. Money guarantees nothing.
If the Cardinals hope to keep Pujols, they cannot go into his walk year with a $120M payroll. There isn't enough money to go around.
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By
Chris_Reed @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:25 PM
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Of course the cartwheels comment is exaggerated; that was the point. It's called sarcasm.
The last time I checked, the FO just made a trade...one that many writers, broadcasters, and fans were very vocal about wanting. Right now DeRosa is hurt, but I believe he will end up making a positive impact on this team when it's all said and done. And nothing is said or done by July 2. There's still plenty of time to make a move, and even more time for the guys we currently have to get healthy and turn their seasons around.
Remember 2008? Of course you do; it was the year that the Cards' front office did nothing at the trade deadline, those cheap bastards. But think back before the season started...it seemed like everyone (myself included) was ready to hand the World Series trophy to the Detroit Tigers. They took what was essentially the same World Series team from 2006 and made the big trade with Florida to get Miggy Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. They signed Gary Sheffield to be their DH. Sounds pretty awesome, right? Guess where they finished in the standings last year: Dead Fucking Last. 74 wins, 88 losses. They cast off good prospects and a ton of money and it got them nothing. Our Cardinals finished 4th last year. Not much better. But they were 86-76 and were in the wild card race until the last week of the season. Am I happy with a 4th place finish? Of course not. But I'd much rather see the Cardinals earn an 86-76 record than buy a 74-88 record.
Presently the Cards are one game out of first place with half the season to go. Kyle Lohse will come back. Mark DeRosa's injury isn't serious. Out of Ludwick, Rasmus, Duncan, and Ankiel, someone will find their swing. Maybe two will. And no other team is poised to run away with this division. Why don't you just watch the games and see what happens?
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By
L D @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:22 PM
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Z-bomb: You cannot forget about expiring contracts after this year...Glaus, Khalil Greene, etc...That would take it back down to close if not under 100. Think before you post, it's simple!
Chris, for every Tiger story I could tell you one of a team making a move and it working out to benefit them, we could have that pissing match all day, so very bad example!
I will agree to disagree that you believe this cardinals team as it stands will be just fine and win the central and you beleive a very good shot at winning the WS. Correct or no?
I will go on record saying that this team has only shown me that it is remotely close with other teams in the NL race is because of Albert Pujols. And this current team will not win the central after all said and done. And very confident that they cannot win a playoff series. Trust me, i hope that I am wrong. But that is my opinion.
Why? Carp still worries me and now Loshe in regards injuries, so i think we need another pitcher. I think Ludwich is a bust and cannot be relied on as the 2nd best hitter on any team....maybe 4th best and should hit 5th or 6th...I would take him there as our 4th best hitter. Ankiel and Duncan make me sick and I think they are what they are this year and for the future! Maybe Ankiel catches a hot streak just when we need him, but boy is that a big muther effing 'IF'!
I actually beleive Rasmous will get better each day the season goes on, but again, too much to ask a rookie to be the 2nd best hitter on a team.
If you are satisfied with mediocracy, then you to will become mediocre!!
Good day,
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By
Steve Kline's Bird @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:35 PM
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ATH has been given some unprecedented access to the Cardinals. Two weeks ago he apparently was able to audit both the baseball and other business and personal finances of all 15 owners of the team and determine that they must sell now.
Now this week he find out he been able to dive into BDW's psyche and determine how he feels about winning. Nevermind that Jim Hayes disputed your opinion about BDW's passion for winning on the air this morning.
Lets face it, ATH, nothing this man can do will satisfy you. You've bitched about the stadium, you've bitched about ads, you've bitched about BPV, and now you're bitching that the player with 2-1/2 seasons left on the largest contract in the franchise's history is too good for Creepy Cardinal Nation.
You display the immature anger of a 15-year-old.
And as for you L D, here's the WS appearances by other Cardinal greats in their careers:
Satn - 4 in 23 years
Ozzie - 3 in 15 years
Red - 1 in 15 years
Enos - 2 in 13 years
Boyer - 1 in 11 years
Dizzy - 1 in 7 years
Lou - 3 in 16 years
Gibby - 3 in 17 years
All of them endured many crapy seasons too. Albert has made 2 trips in 8 seasons and been in the race every year. I think he owes BDW and TLR as much as they owe him.
But regardless of what you think you or anyone else in Creepy Cardinal Nation are owed, none of them owe you a damn thing other than 3 hours of entertainment 162 days a year. Grow up.
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By
Chris_Reed @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:53 PM
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"I will agree to disagree that you believe this cardinals team as it stands will be just fine and win the central and you beleive a very good shot at winning the WS."
Never once have I said that today or at all this season. I do believe they have a shot "as is." Is it a "very good shot?" Well who the hell knows that? What I do know is up to two playoff spots can come out of the NL Central. "As it stands," the Cardinals are in serious competition for both. And no one affiliated with the team has said "This is the team we will field through the end of the season...no more acquisitions of any kind." So what inside information do you have that the team we see now is the team we have until October 4?
And I'm well aware that plenty of teams have made acquisitions and gone on to win. But that doesn't make the Detroit example a bad one, because it is still a valid one. Even seemingly insignificant moves can turn out huge by the end of the year. Anyone that claims back in 2006 they said something similar to "JEFF WEAVER AND RONNIE BELLIARD?!?! CREEPING FUCKING JESUS! THE CARDINALS ARE GONNA WIN THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR!!!" is a liar. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the same lunatics that right now are bad-mouthing ownership were saying the same things at that time...dumpster diving...not going after the big names...ya think?
Feel free to give me a list...the guys the Cardinals need to acquire to have a "good shot" at winning the World Series this year, and the current players they will trade away to get that player or players here. Go.
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By
buchema @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 6:08 PM
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I actually agree with ATH & LD here...Pujols is the greatest baseball player St. Louis and possibly the world has ever seen.
The '04 Cards were legit, i'll give Walt Jocketty that....but he's not here anymore. And I can honestly say, since Larry Walker out free agent signings have been a joke. Troy Glaus? Khalil Greene? Mark fuckin DeRosa? Maybe other ppl had all their eggs in the Mark DeRosa basket but I certainly didn't put my hopes in this career utility-man.
Maybe its DeWitt, maybe its Mozlaik...i don't know. But I remember when the trade deadline was exciting because we knew the Cardinals were always eager to improve....getting guys like Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire. Regardless of your thoughts on those guys now, EVERYONE was excited to get them.
Steve Kline: what you forget about your little "satn" analogy there is that several of those guys played on the same teams....and what a surprise!! They're HOFers!!! Lets glance at the future HOFers on the Cardinals now....AP, aaaaand done. Good stuff. Oh wait, I guess we should count TLR & the talented Duncan too.
Pay attention girls, all we're saying is to make an effort for one bat to protect AP. We need pitching too but hey, we're not the BoSox, Yanks, Cubs, LAA, LAD, or Mets. We can't afford it. Just one need at a time. A bat. I'm quite sure AP wanted Manny. Is he too expensive? Yes. Did he end up suspended for 50 games? Yes. Was his contract for only one year? Yes. Most importantly, would it make the fans get excited & the best player in franchise history a little happier? Yes.
Excited fans = Tickets sold. When you watch a game at Busch it is embarrassing to see all the empty seats. Its even more embarrassing to see fans only cheer when AP is batting. Christ, last night Waino was a strike away from pitching 9 great innings & not a single person was cheering or backing him up. Baseball town? Maybe in the 80s...when the franchise cared about rings. Have a day homos.
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By
Steve Kline's Bird @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 6:31 PM
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buchema...
Have you already decided that Wainwright and Molina won't be HOF's. Where did they come from? One was drafted, one was the extra unknown, to all of you who don't follow the ATL farm system, throw-in on a 5 player deal that improved the 2004-06 Cardinals and now has given us our ace for the coming decade.
Who gives a fuck how excited you are about the moves? Did you spew with joy when they signed a hurt FA pitcher with a losing record on 12/13/02. See if you can figure out who it was. I trust these guys more than Fantasy GM's or ATH.
Suck on that homo.
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By
cramflang @
Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:30 PM
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AT Hooks and this buchema character...two mother fucker who represent what's wrong with the modern day sports fan.
Get a clue, you stupid arrogant assholes...you don't have all the answers...nor will everything go exactly how you want.
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